Tvheadend

i just got my tvheadend server up , but will order one next week

If it's running embedded tvheadend, would you get PVR functions unless it can write to an external drive? So no timeshift either by the same logic. Unless you feed it into another tvheadend instance as an IP stream...? That would explain the comment "Compatible with all Linux software, dvblast, tvheadend as well as other software running on both server and client".

I saw it when it was announced, but don't understand enough about it yet to know if it complements my existing setup or actually replaces part of it. So, Niklas - let us know what it looks like when it arrives!

EDIT

Yes, looking again at those links, it looks like it just delivers an IP stream over "HTTP,RTSP,RTP". So I presume you'd configure tvheadend on another system to see this as an IPTV source...?

EDIT 2

No, just confused now - http://www.ebraincity.com/ebraincity/products/MOI-DVB%252dS2-Streaming-Box.html:

"More powerful – Linux system with TVHeadend,DVBlast,mumuDVB,szap,scan pre-installed."

Hi

Will report as soon as it arrived...some pictures on hw and first impression.

Br Niklas

Prof Yaffle wrote:

If it's running embedded tvheadend, would you get PVR functions unless it can write to an external drive? So no timeshift either by the same logic.

I'm guessing it can write to connected USB and/or Samba/NFS mounts.
The pic of it here (http://www.tbsdtv.com/launch/images/zt_s_4.jpg) shows a host USB port so fingers crossed this is the case.
(and also that they release a DVB-T2 version)

This looks interesting - not a million miles away from NessieDVB.: http://www.nessiedvb.com/en/specifications.html

I'm trying to do something similar with an AMLogic-based DVB-S2 STB designed to run Android. Box similar to this : http://dvbdroid.info This box also has a full HDMI and Composite TV output system - and the chipset runs XBMC with hardware acceleration (one of the few chipsets used in these Android boxes with decent dev support)

Looks great to me as a dedicated backend.

I currently have a single seat setup, and have been looking for a silent backend.

Only real limitation for me is not being able to add additional tuners, as I currently use tbs pci-e tuners.

In 2 minds whether this is the right option for me. May have to look at building a dedicated thin backend with support for multiple pci-e (although that is not really that easy)

Maybe it would be possible to add additional USB tuners via the USB socket on the device?
Seems feasible if the hardware is up to it as the kernel will surely have support for their own hardware.
Alternatively maybe it would be possible to run two backends - not sure if the f/e (xbmc?) could handle this though.
Maybe some tweaks to TVH could enable multiple backends to communicate to share config etc?

I just have fingers crossed that a DVB-T2 version will materialise...

I think the main limitation for extra tuners could well be 100Mbs Ethernet, particularly if you want to stream more than one channel from the same transponder?

Be interesting to see how GPL-friendly and Open Source it is. Good that it has an RS232 port - presumably for uBoot/Console access? USB could be useful for additional tuners or card reader?

Just to throw in my 2 pence... for those that don't know most of the TVH devs (myself included) have been sent MOI samples. They look like pretty nifty boxes, unfortunately I've killed mine. But I wouldn't hold that against TBS, I have a habit of doing this!

However I can provide some insight based on my usage, you can also ask in #hts as you'll find a few people in there that have used them.

1. It's not something I'd personally purchase (doesn't suit my requirements) however its a nice enough bit of kit for a standalone streaming server.
2. Currently the kernel's shipped on our samples are lacking quite a few useful features, including:
- no NFS client/server support (though we've been promised this at some point).
- no USB tuner support
NOTE: the kernel sources will be made available pre-release, TBS are still tidying things up though. So that should mean adding USB tuners will be possible.
3. In reality the 100Mb is not that limiting, unless you were hoping to stream entire multiplexes.
4. I've heard mention that TBS do want to do variants using other DVB input types, though I've not pressed them on it.
5. RS232 does indeed provide uboot/console access.
6. The software build does need some work in my opinion, I don't like a few things about the way they've packaged TVH nor how they've setup the OS.
7. In terms of performance it seems pretty good, but anyone expecting to do software descrambling of HD channels may have to find an alternative. One dev tried this and found it was ok for some HD channels, but higher bit rate ones were a real struggle.
8. With regard to open source, they are complying with all requirements as far as I can tell. The only thing we've yet to see are the kernel sources, but I'm pretty sure they will be forthcoming. However don't expect completely open DVB drivers, I imagine they will be same as standard TBS drivers. Part of it at least will be binary firmware blob.

If I get some time, and ideally if I can get another box (or fix mine) I will probably try and post a short article about the box.

Adam

Seems promising for my usage - assuming they release a DVB-T2 version :)
I currently have a raspberry Pi (raspbmc pre release) which I am using solely for TVH (xbmc GUI is disabled).
It sits under my stairs (where there is wired network and aerial booster) and is on 24/7, but I'd love to free up the pi for other things - especially since there is no compatible DVB-t2 decoder (due to Pi's USB driver lacking isoc e/p support the pctv 290e does not work well)

Thanks Adam

Very encouraging re: Kernel sources and Open Source compliance. Pity that the processing power doesn't seem to be there for descrambling of HD - that's a requirement for many people. (Some of the SoCs aimed at STBs - and it looks like the SoC in the MOI is as it appears to have transport stream interfacing - have some acceleration for descrambling I believe. I wonder if this is being used? Looking at the data sheet for the SoC :

Hardware Crypto Accelerator
− Securely integrated DES/ TDES, AES, SHA-1, PRNG and PKA

Is any of that likely to be useful for accelerating descrambling? Doesn't the DVB CSA use AES encryption? If so - do you think the hardware crypto accelerator could be useful?

Looking at the pictures it appears that the device has two boards - a CPU board and a DVB-Tuner board - so that is encouraging for potential future DVB-T/T2, DVB-C etc. releases.

Also interesting that the SoC used has an on-board MFC (which is a hardware acclerator for MPEG2, H264 and VC-1) and HDMI support - though this is presumably unused and not available. It's a similar category of chip as those shipping in lots of the Android TV boxes and sticks. (The Odroid series are based on a newer A9 Quad core model)

I believe (from memory, I did open it up as soon as I got it ) that it's actually a 3 board system. 1 for DVB tuners, 1 for SOC and 1 for power conversion. The tuners are also connected via USB, so I imagine there are definitely plans to create variants with both DVB-T and DVB-C tuner boards.

The problem is that you won't get TBS doing the acceleration (for obvious reasons) so it needs someone in the community to do optimisations to something like dvbcsa.

I think its a bit of a shame myself they didn't include HDMI output, would have been a nice standalone media system. But clearly that's not the market they're targetting.

Adam

Looks like some work has been done on integrating Samsung crypto hardware into the Linux kernel - though for a different model of SoC. http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel.samsung-soc/1679 Out of my league in coding terms unfortunately.

Well I took the plunge and ordered one but at the moment am playing with the Tevii S660 and Raspberry pi/tvheadend.

I have to say that once I got my head around configuring it, my current 660/pi combo works really well with tvh and I can watch via xbmc. A few issues with BBC HD breaking up a bit but I think that may be processing related and I will do a few tweaks if I get round to it before the MOI turns up.

What would be really good would be if I could run Mythbackend on the MOI (without wanting to offend anyone on here), or be able to get tvheadend to provide the ability for Mythtv to read/control a la HDHomerun. That would be my ideal as I could leave the sat feed/tvheadend at its entry point in the house and just connect to my current mythtv setup via ethernet. Could also do likewise for DVB-T sticks etc then too :-). I do make a lot of use of Mythtv's scheduler and keyword searching facility and never really watch much live tv. I have also had a lot more success in tuning the S660 with tvheadend than MythTV.

Martin

Has anyone got any further with this new box and descrambling? Am a bit of a noob to this but this box looks like it could be ideal for my situation if the descrambling works. The link Stephen posted above to the SoC code looks interesting but the code is old and doesn't look like it works (plus Stephen points out the MOI has a different module).

I have no aerial or satellite connection in my flat (totally isolated!) and no option to lay a cable. However the main part of the building has a satellite dish (with two available transponders) which I could connect the MOI to. I figure if I connect the MOI to a wireless bridge and can get a reasonably stable wireless-N connection with at least 30Mbps back to my router then I could watch two channels using TvHeadend (RTSP). Correct me if I am way off. However descrambling would be the issue. Reading about MumuDVB sending the scrambled channels as pass through to a PC frontend sounds like an alternative but I imagine MumuDVB sending each channel instance (as in any potential channel I wish to watch) on a multicast IP to the router (in this case over wireless) would be a non-starter. MumuDVB not yet supporting RTSP. Thanks in advance for any inputs to my dilemma. Currently btw am limited to watching UK freeview over the net using the CatchupTV service and would like to get a larger range of channels (plus experience less jitter/cut-off).

I believe the current state is that descrambling higher bit rate HD is too much for the board. It can cope with SD ok (not sure of how many streams) and some lower bit rate HD (but almost certainly no more than 1 stream). And I'm not really up to speed on any work to optimise this code (libdvbcsa).

I also considered setting something up on the box to stream the raw data to my main TVH server, but I got sidetracked and have subsequently repurposed the spare 2 feeds for a new quad tuner in my main box.

Adam

I'd probably also add, that if you already have a box that you might put TVH on, then I'd suggest just buying a PCI or USB tuner for that box. Probably much simpler.

I think the MOI has its uses, but atm for me its not really that useful as a simple mini-ITX based PC with PCIe/USB tuners is more than good enough to meet my needs. I was just planning to use my MOI as a dev system.

Adam

Currently am using mine with tvheadend to stream freeview back to XBMC via my GB Ethernet network for freesat. Works just fine with all the fta HD channels so far. Have also connected to my other xbmc box upstairs via 2.4Ghz Wireless N (with a repeater/bridge so half the avail bandwidth) and BBC HD was fine (not tried any others).

Next is to try MuMuDVB and set it up as a network recorder in mythtv when I have a bit of spare time.

Cant comment on encrypted channel use as I have no interest in them

Martin

Martin,

Indeed for FTA stuff, like Freesat, its not a bad little board. Personally I still wouldn't buy one, what are they £150, a dual S2 card is £90, leaving £60 to build a machine (I think mine was probably £70) and you've got a much more flexible powerful system. Of course the MOI will probably draw less power, but then if you are recording offline to something else you've already got something somewhere with disks (presumably).

But I think it'll still find its place. In some ways its a real shame they didn't go a bit further, take full advantage of the chip and create a full PVR box (or at least teh option). But that wasn't the market they were aiming at.

Adam

Adam,

Actually I got mine for £90-£100 on preorder with the MK802 stick (that is still in the box). Not sure what its selling for now but I agree a dual card is a more powerful and versatile option.

My sat feed is remote from my main MythTV/XBMC (Acer Revo 3610 so limited to USB/network tuners). With PVR support in XBMC (along with its various issues that could screw up recordings on MythTv although I think I have ensured that wouldn't happen) it made a few things a bit more attractive (I do have a Tevii S660 and had no-end of trouble with that locking up and needing complete machine reboots)

With that and all the mucking about to combine freeview and freesat channel lists in MythTV and the fact that I dont watch huge amounts of TV, I can keep my existing MythTV system for freeview and if I want to watch the HD channels (and the occassional freesat only channel) I can do so by switching to XBMC and using the MOI/tvheadend/xbmc combo. I have no interest in recording HD as it just takes up more space and I delete recordings once i have watched them

Therefore it kind of works quite well for me but I admit I am probably not the norm.

I will give MuMuDVB a go but suspect I will fall back to what I now have with xbmc/tvh/MOI.

I know some work is being done to try and run the MOI as a MythTV slave backend which I may go down if it works but my aim is simplicity and minimal maintenance once its running and not having to keep rebuilding/patching so we shall see

Martin

Oh once I had sussed the quirks of the web interface (to disable the renumbering of my channnels), I do far prefer the tvh satellite setup interface! Much easier!

I have to say I have had the MOI running for some time now using TVH and XBMC for livetv and have to say its been great! Whilst I dont watch much livetv and I only have one feed setup at the moment it has been stable and worked a treat

Martin