Tvheadend

if you're using tvh for first time you should search information about how it works and functions
It is not just install it and make magic. To everything there is extensive documentation mention is just find and read. may be this works for you.

http://docs.tvheadend.org/#tvheadend-42-user-guide

I fully understand the message C vH tries to give. I'm a software engineer myself and I'm always struggling with the functionality needed by the program and how do I present this. Users are all different and it would be great if, and also good for tvheadend, that the usability will be improved.

Don't understand me wrong I like tvheadend a lot as it is, but sometimes confused about all the options, and not all of them are described.

Functionality that is not used often, or never, must be hide somehow. Take a look at Kodi for a possible example, if you are an expert you will see all but are you a Rookie the options displayed are not more than necessary.

+1 for such "Startup wizard menu"
some style of http://www.formwizard.biz

if you're using tvh for first time you should search information about how it works and functions

We should give a fu about a majority of users? What you describe is the opposite of usability.
Tvh should be an end user software - why did I have to read a manual for set up basic functionality? Advanced features needs advanced knowledge - no problem with that.
The regular Tvh user is at least a bit technic affine - we don't talk about lusers - but even for this people it is impossible to use without a tutorial. (I got ~12+ years into tv@pc and had tested nearly everything what is/was available and I had no chance to setup Tvh ~2.x without the manual because of illogical steps)
Receivers, TV's, VDR, DVBViewer, WMC, MP ... could be basic setup without the need of a manual!

What benefit does Tvh has from this unnecessary complexity? Less users (at the moment YES)? More support effort (of course)?
What are the downsides of a easy setup? Sorry couldn't name one.
We wouldn't lose a single feature but gain a lot of simplicity. Also the coding effort isn't that high.

In my opinion, the "wizard" should not be specific to webui (HTTP). There should be possible to setup the TVH from pvr.hts or any other client. And yes, we were asked if TVH can be set from Kodi without HTTP access. Of course, the complex setup is probably better to maintain using the webui, but I don't see any reason to not share the "wizard" from webui and pvr.hts.

I have an implementation idea - I added a HTSP proxy to all HTTP API calls in v4.1-1079-gf44dcce . It just the first step. The current idnode system can already expose the GUI controls so the setup won't be dependend on the client (the UI client should translate the description from the C code to a specific GUI forms - so TVH has chance to update the setup process itself without waiting for the client updates).

For sure the best we can get is that the wizard could be used via pvr.hts - but honestly I it looks, from my perspective, after a lot of work (its a bit awkward to demand this commitment)
Also a solution where we can import/export our settings via pvr.hts would be great. This isn't even possible at the webui (split it into settings, channels, users ... and save it as xml.gz ...).

Some things like channel sorting would be also nice to have at pvr.hts but honestly who like to sort his channels with a remote

The initial UI level code is in the master. I reconfigured only the General configuration / DVR configuration / Channels grid as a demo...

Nice done, but is the placement of the "UI level" button not better of on the right (after help)?

Configuration - Channel/EPG - EPG grabber modules: missing ADD and DELETE

I think that I tab-specific level switch is very uncomfortable: willing to switch the interface on level different than the default one (e.g., expert) I have to switch one-by-one all the tabs...
I would like a global interface level (like Kodi) that switch all the interface on the desired level. I would move such global setting near the login/logout controls.

Meindert Oldenburger Oldenburger: I don't think you can add/remove EPG grabber modules. The XMLTV grabber are automatically discovered.

As said, per tab levels are not that handy - better switch every lvl with the button.

Also a additional idea, the lvl button should only be temporary till the next login, then fallback to the level chosen at general settings. At the moment the lvl choosing is done twice - it is unclear that the botton does the same like the setting at general.

The button should be always at the same position - not ideal to search for it at every tab, next to the help on the right is too far away to be eye catching (we are lazy users) - maybe [status] [about] [level] ? Of course would make only perfect sense with the global level change idea from above !

Update:

- fixed the global uilevel settings (general config)
- moved from button to menu
- moved the button position to right before Help

Another update: reduced toolbar in the channel grid to support lowres monitors.

Even with latest change the selected level is still local to the tab and not global. It looks that if I want to switch on the view on all the available options I have to change the level tab-by-tab. My personal vote is for a global level switch like Kodi: I switch once from basic to expert in order to restore my previous experience.

Sorry, just seen the global/default setting in the General->Base tab.
But:
- I can't distinguish the tabs where I switched on a non-default level
- no way to restore the default (so global) level on all "weird" tabs

This fine-grain management looks overwhelming for the former goal. IMHO

I'm also a fan of a global level control like Mario wrote (at the moment unnecessary complex). The menu is nicely done !

A bit concerned about the location of the button (also the help button), inexperienced users higly need this button but they are far away :)

Another "problem" is the missing columns resulting in unnecessary spacing.

There is no need that enable, play etc columns are wider as the name of the columns (change it to fit the margin of the table names ? - would fit to the translation too).

There is the global control - see your screenshot - first image - second field in the form - "User interface level". Just save it and you set the default level for all grids/form. You may override this settings also per user (see ACL).

For columns width - I accept patches!

If you 'dirty" some tabs with a value different than the default one, there is no way to revert on the default value.

Ohh, I see now. I think that it would be acceptable to reset the view level to the default when the tab is re-focused.

Jaroslav Kysela wrote:

For columns width - I accept patches!

A bit research shows that http://docs.sencha.com/extjs/4.2.0/#!/api/Ext.grid.column.Column-method-autoSize would be perfect in addition to minWidth / maxWidth.

but ExtJS >4.2 - so lets delay this

@CvH: be brave and override ExtJS class :-)
@MarioD: the level view state should be reset to default now... if you find another mismatch, let me know

Also, if you find anything which should be moved between simple/advanced/expert settings (fields, columns) let me know, too. I went through all dialogs and grids, but most probably, I missed something.

I wondered if there are entire tabs that perhaps belong in "advanced/expert", e.g. the stream filters or CA elements.

I can also see (build 4.1-1120~gda15d97) that the UI level on e.g. DVR -> Upcoming/Current Recordings only seems to set to the master level (Config -> General -> Base) on a web refresh or a "tab away and tab back" - so a tab refresh? That could be a quirk of extJS, though.

Re: comment above about ACLs... should "User interface level" be a visible column in the Access Entries tab? At least, it should be selectable - it should probably also appear if you set that view to "expert" (as you're now clearly playing with the levels).

Prof Yaffle wrote:

I can also see (build 4.1-1120~gda15d97) that the UI level on e.g. DVR -> Upcoming/Current Recordings only seems to set to the master level (Config -> General -> Base) on a web refresh or a "tab away and tab back" - so a tab refresh? That could be a quirk of extJS, though.

Maybe you are talking about the feature introduced by Jaroslav in comment #18.

Could I suggest to hide the local-to-tab switch control if the default/global level is set on "Expert"? Why an expert should be annoyed by this constant presence? "For testing and development" should not be considered a good counter-example.

Mario D wrote:

Maybe you are talking about the feature introduced by Jaroslav in comment #18.

Sort of. You can reset the tab on a re-focus, but you need to tab away and back. If you simply switch back to, say, Digital Video Recorder and land back on the same tab (e.g. if you had Upcoming open last time), it will always have whatever level it had previously, even if you've changed it in General. Moving then from, say, Upcoming to Finished and then back to Upcoming and you'll then get the new level.

So yes, that could well be the same issue. I think

Jaroslav Kysela wrote:

Also, if you find anything which should be moved between simple/advanced/expert settings (fields, columns) let me know, too. I went through all dialogs and grids, but most probably, I missed something.

Some pure suggestions:
- Configuration->DVB Inputs->TV adapters->any sat>ip tuner node: 'UDP RTP port number (2 ports):' should be moved to advanced;
- Configuration->Channel/EPG->Channels->edit on a channel: I would move 'Tags:' on basic level;
- Configuration->Channel/EPG->EPG Grabber: I would move on advanced all the settings using the cron-style for its nature;
- Configuration->Channel/EPG->EPG Grabber Modules: I would move all the priority settings under advanced;
- I would hide under advanced the entire 'Streaming profiles' tab or at least many of the details related to the codecs; a basic user should at most be able to enable/disable some of them but this could even create a lot of problem (changing the default profile...);
- Configuration->Stream: all the '* Filters' tab should go under expert (or at least advanced); no way a basic user can understand anything on these settings;
- 'CAs' and 'Debugging' tabs should be reserved to advanced users.

All IMHO

@MarioD: all done (perhaps I overlooked something).

Tried to resolve the inconsistencies for the view level among tabs and forms and I wasn't successful, but I added 'persistent user interface level', so you may lock (remove) the level selection button/menu completely.

Jaroslav Kysela wrote:

@MarioD: all done (perhaps I overlooked something).

With respect to my suggestions, some points are missing. I'm reporting them here, but maybe to decided to skip them:
- Configuration->Channel/EPG->EPG Grabber Modules: I would move all the priority settings under advanced;
- I would hide under advanced the entire 'Streaming profiles' tab or at least many of the details related to the codecs; a basic user should at most be able to enable/disable some of them but this could even create a lot of problem (changing the default profile...);

I'm on 4.1-1128~g1a604ee build: if I switch 'User interface level:' on Basic (without persistent setting on), the interface is automatically reload but the level switch in set on 'expert' (but only basic tabs are shown).

Mario D wrote:

- Configuration->Channel/EPG->EPG Grabber Modules: I would move all the priority settings under advanced;

I don't see priority settings in the basic level.

- I would hide under advanced the entire 'Streaming profiles' tab or at least many of the details related to the codecs; a basic user should at most be able to enable/disable some of them but this could even create a lot of problem (changing the default profile...);

Changed.

I'm on 4.1-1128~g1a604ee build: if I switch 'User interface level:' on Basic (without persistent setting on), the interface is automatically reload but the level switch in set on 'expert' (but only basic tabs are shown).

Fixed.

Wizard demo is committed. More work is required but the basic C code / ExtJS interactions are resolved.

tx for your work on this !!!