Tvheadend

ullix tv wrote:

Indeed, the "positions" in the tvheadend TV Adapter SAT>IP configuration have nothing to do with the low/high vert/horiz settings of the classical LNBs.

yes, you are right

And by testing I found that ONLY position #1 must be enabled - no further transponder / channel can be found on either one of the positions #2, #3, #4. Those positions #2, #3, #4 can also NOT be used in lieue of position #1!

you are right again, sorry about my wrong info

I now have some problems: when more then 2-3 devices are connecting to TVH then there is 1 sec stuttering (1-2 times/min), though CPU-load is less then 50%. With dvbviewer directly connecting to iLNB there is no stuttering. Maybe its because the in- and outgoing traffic of TVH use the same lan-device, TVH is connected to iLNB via 1 GB/s, but to the LAN only with 100Mbit/s.

I discovered some problems with iLNB and Tvheadend: the iLNB doesn't like "Idle scan" enabled for more than 2-3 tuners. This definately should be fixed by Inverto because my Octopus can handle Idle Scans without any problems. I also get a lot of "Uncorrected Blocks" and "Continuity Errors". It doesn't work as stable as expected.

C K wrote:

I discovered some problems with iLNB and Tvheadend: the iLNB doesn't like "Idle scan" enabled for more than 2-3 tuners. This definately should be fixed by Inverto because my Octopus can handle Idle Scans without any problems. I also get a lot of "Uncorrected Blocks" and "Continuity Errors". It doesn't work as stable as expected.

I wrote exactly this to Inverto about their 400s boxes (GSS.BOX compatible). But it seems that this hw goes unstable when some temperature is crossed (probably in the tuner block?). When I opened the box and added the fan, all those errors went away.. Unfortunately, Inverto doesn't talk with me..

But for the outdoor hw I would expect more stability..

Indeed, the hw is a bit warm. Just checked the temperature: 3.6 degrees outside, 23.2 degrees iLNB! But the iLNB is a closed and waterproof device, so i don't want to open it and add a fan ;-)

C K wrote:

I discovered some problems with iLNB and Tvheadend: the iLNB doesn't like "Idle scan" enabled for more than 2-3 tuners. This definately should be fixed by Inverto because my Octopus can handle Idle Scans without any problems. I also get a lot of "Uncorrected Blocks" and "Continuity Errors". It doesn't work as stable as expected.

What are the "problems" and how do you know they are caused by "Idle scan"?

I have all 8 tuners of the iLNB enabled for both "Initial Scan" and "Idle scan", and while the iLNB is running, I don't see problems. However, as mentioned previously the iLNB occasionally hangs so badly that only the power switch helps. Of course, I can't say that this is or isn't due to any enabled scan feature.

Since I have set the "Satellite positions" for each tuner to 1 (instead of the default 4), the iLNB is now running fine for 3 days. Of course, this also is no proof for any effect of the positions settings.

Is there a debug option for tvheadend which would give info when the hang occurs, both with respect to time-of-day and with respect to the action just taken or initiated by tvh?

@Jaroslav:

I take it from your comments that you are the author of the SAT>IP driver (is it a driver in tvh lingo?) so a well deserved compliment first! After all, it works and setup is still amazingly simple, despite some of my/our struggle!

You might then be the best person for this question: please, help me to understand the meaning of the term "Master tuner". Each one of my 8 tuners is configured with "This tuner", and overall it does work.

When or why would I set anything else?

Does it have to do with the "Static Operation" mentioned in the "SAT>IP Protocol Specification Version 1.2.1" (page 58, http://www.satip.info/resources ). If so, I still don't understand what the most appropriate setting should be.

This tuner thingy is not looking very good at the moment. See here:

https://github.com/tvheadend/tvheadend/pull/369#issuecomment-66629394

I need some help.

folks, what is the consensus now on the inverto ilnb? Is it working now without issues? And what speed are channel changes compared to normal dvb-s2 pci-e tuner?

Interested in purchasing one so would be good to know.

Thanks

It works for me.

gary tan wrote:

folks, what is the consensus now on the inverto ilnb? Is it working now without issues? And what speed are channel changes compared to normal dvb-s2 pci-e tuner?

Interested in purchasing one so would be good to know.

Thanks

To misuse Bill Clinton's famous words: "It depends on what the meaning of the 'is working' is"

We know for sure that there is a bug in the firmware, as the IPLNB can go in a hanging-state, out of which only the power switch helps. And as this happens solely due to commands (or lack thereof) from the clients, and as a server should never crash because of a client command, that qualifies it as a bug.

However, this hanging IPLNB issue, which had plagued me, seems to have been overcome, see https://tvheadend.org/issues/2555#note-50

So, as of today, using tvheadend 3.9.2410~g3077ffa~precise on Ubuntu 12.04, and Kodi on FireTV as frontend, the IPLNB is running smoothly on day 13 X 24h with no indication of anything going wrong. Enough time? You decide if it is enough to say it "is working" . I'd buy the IPLNB again.

The channel switching in LIVE-TV in the above setup from a running channel to another running channel with sound (first you see picture, then you hear sound) is 2.0-2.5 sec; it is as fast or faster than the swithicng of the DVB-T tuner built into the television set. That surely is not an issue for me.

It think it would be great if others could be more specific and say what system they use and what IPLNB uptime they have, and what, if any, issues have surfaced.

I had barely finished posting the above, when the IPLNB hung again...

New bug report here: https://tvheadend.org/issues/2638

ullix tv wrote:

I had barely finished posting the above, when the IPLNB hung again...

New bug report here: https://tvheadend.org/issues/2638

... and I had barely posted that one, when a fix was issued. Running again.

I see that issue 2638 is closed as fixed but last post indicates there is still a problem?

I just stumbled upon this:
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=165707&pid=1910495#pid1910495

"Don' t use tvheadend at all. Go with vdr and vnsi. Tvh was removed from OpenELEC, cause it is broken and unsupportable by a distribution."

I am planing to use openelec - anyone fresh experience with it? Maybe kodibuntu might be the better choice?

Ben Tod wrote:

"Don' t use tvheadend at all. Go with vdr and vnsi. "

Well, tvh and IPLNB are running again for a couple of days, periodically changing from with stress test (idle scan, heavy recordings), to without, and it is going smoothly, no hangs

That categoric statement of not using tvh seems to be far away from reality. On this vdr-forum (in German) they also discuss the problems with their installaion with the iplnb ( http://www.vdr-portal.de/board16-video-disk-recorder/board85-hdtv-dvb-s2/124390-kurzreview-inverto-ilnb-sat-ip/index4.html ). So don't count on vdr being free of problems!

Part of the problem lies in the iplnb firmware, another part in the tvh/vdr/whatever software. Some problems may result from imprecise definitions of the SAT>IP specifications , where the iplnb views itself following the specs, when client software, like tvh, views it as requiring a workaround.

Is anyone surprised that in new technology some bugs may be waiting?

I had used mythtv before for many years, but this isn't even able to handle SAT>IP (https://forum.mythtv.org/viewforum.php?f=3, see SAT>IP topic, the most viewed of all). On top mythtv is soooo much more difficult to configure, in that regard tvheadend is a whole new world! It is almost simple by comparison, and output file names in human readable form makes it easier than going through a mysql database translation just to know where/what a file is. And for frontends Kodi is much simpler than mythtv's own frontend.

One has to use the 3.9 series of tvh, as the older ones don't support SAT>IP. And overall 3.9, although in development, had been very stable, except for the IPLNB issues.

I had once tried vdr and failed in configuring it. No need any more, I stick with tvh. The others may work, too. Try it.

But such a categoric exclusion of tvh sounds less based on facts and more on something like a personal vendetta of some kind.

Hi ullix tv tv

Can you please confirm if I use this iLNB for 12 Users's with only 7 Transponders's SAT all user's can watch different channels, of that 7 Transponders...

Thanks

Not sure to fully understand your question. Why 7 tuners - there is no device with 7; devices come with 1, 2, 4, 8 tuners.

I have the Inverto SAT>IP LNB with 8 tuners (somewhat unfortunately, Inverto themselves had named this device 8-channel, not 8-tuner). But this device is no longer being manufactured; unless you have it already, or find a used one, you are out of luck ! Too bad, as for the last year or so, it has worked almost flawlessly.

Now, through each tuner you can receive as many TV-channels, as there are on the frequency the tuner is tuned to. Looking at the Astra satellite for Free TV, I find a maximum of 14 channels for a frequency (ignoring those sex-channels, which have several dozens). And radio channels can be 100+ per frequency.

As stated initially in this post, I have recorded 25 different TV-stations simultaneously with this device. However, if the stations are available on more than 8 frequencies, you are out of luck. The number of tuners is then the limit. To be clear, I have not tested the limits with 8 different users accessing more than 8 programs at a time. But if my understanding of TVH is correct, it works the same whether you have 1 user with 25+ programs, or 8 users with those same 25+ programs.

Alternatives to Inverto's LNB are limited. Here http://www.satip.info/products/sat%3Eip%20servers an 8-tuner SAT>IP LNB from Triax is shown, but despite an announcemnt from 2015, it is still not available.

Yet other options might be to get an OCTO-LNB (~30€), and 2 devices like this https://www.amazon.de/Telestar-Digibit-Sat-IP-Netzwerk-Transmitter/dp/B008OVPYCQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474301523&sr=8-1&keywords=Telestar+Digibit+R1 (~120€ each). The total of 270€ is about what the Inverto originally was, and you get 8 tuners. The annoying part is that you need to thread the whole bundle of 8 SAT cables into your house, while the Inverto tuner required only a single, flat ethernet cable. (likewise for the new, but unavailable Triax device)

Good luck!

Thats so sad inverto stopped the production. :-(

Hopefully triax's version still gets released.

This press release from June 1st 2016 mentions it

http://www.triax.uk/Media/~/media/Files/PR/INT/press_release_anga_2016_EN.pdf

plus the product spec sheet is dated May of this year

http://www.satip.info/sites/satip/files/files/GB%20-%20Product%20info%20%5BTriax%20SAT-IP-LNB%5D%2005-2016%20-1.pdf

ullix tv wrote:

Not sure to fully understand your question. Why 7 tuners - there is no device with 7; devices come with 1, 2, 4, 8 tuners.

I have the Inverto SAT>IP LNB with 8 tuners (somewhat unfortunately, Inverto themselves had named this device 8-channel, not 8-tuner). But this device is no longer being manufactured; unless you have it already, or find a used one, you are out of luck ! Too bad, as for the last year or so, it has worked almost flawlessly.

Now, through each tuner you can receive as many TV-channels, as there are on the frequency the tuner is tuned to. Looking at the Astra satellite for Free TV, I find a maximum of 14 channels for a frequency (ignoring those sex-channels, which have several dozens). And radio channels can be 100+ per frequency.

As stated initially in this post, I have recorded 25 different TV-stations simultaneously with this device. However, if the stations are available on more than 8 frequencies, you are out of luck. The number of tuners is then the limit. To be clear, I have not tested the limits with 8 different users accessing more than 8 programs at a time. But if my understanding of TVH is correct, it works the same whether you have 1 user with 25+ programs, or 8 users with those same 25+ programs.

Alternatives to Inverto's LNB are limited. Here http://www.satip.info/products/sat%3Eip%20servers an 8-tuner SAT>IP LNB from Triax is shown, but despite an announcemnt from 2015, it is still not available.

Yet other options might be to get an OCTO-LNB (~30€), and 2 devices like this https://www.amazon.de/Telestar-Digibit-Sat-IP-Netzwerk-Transmitter/dp/B008OVPYCQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474301523&sr=8-1&keywords=Telestar+Digibit+R1 (~120€ each). The total of 270€ is about what the Inverto originally was, and you get 8 tuners. The annoying part is that you need to thread the whole bundle of 8 SAT cables into your house, while the Inverto tuner required only a single, flat ethernet cable. (likewise for the new, but unavailable Triax device)

Good luck!

Hi ullix tv,
Thanks for fast response and tips...

The idea here is to see if I can get on old building with old cables setup up with coax lan protocol using IP sat on Lan to 12 apartments with only a Pc/Raspberry Pi 3 using tvheadend as headend and using raspberry Pi 3 us Clients...

On my mod I only use 7 transponders form 1 satellite, that's way I mention the number 7...

On DVB-S setup with 7 tuners we can get all channels of the 7 transponders, if transponders have 10 or 20 channels on DVB doesn't mater, We can get all of it...

That's way my question about it....

About testing the limits with 8 different users accessing more than 8 programs at same time, or more, this can be done, by using multiple instances of VLC, if you can try....

Any way I found a multiswitch SAT IP for my needs, expensive but can done the work, with price of 777,00€:
JOHANSSON 9830 4X2:
We present a SAT >IP enabled multiswitch, which is able to receive signals from 4 satellite bands and can distribute
up to 16 IP stream on 2 Gigabit Ethernet ports, meaning 8 independent people can watch TV in every household!
The SAT >IP multiswitch is equipped with Power over Ethernet (PoE), making an external power supply or adapter
superfluous. In case the routers or switches in the building are not yet PoE-enabled, a power supply can be delivered
to power the unit.

gary tan wrote:

Hopefully triax's version still gets released.

This press release from June 1st 2016 mentions it

http://www.triax.uk/Media/~/media/Files/PR/INT/press_release_anga_2016_EN.pdf

plus the product spec sheet is dated May of this year

http://www.satip.info/sites/satip/files/files/GB%20-%20Product%20info%20%5BTriax%20SAT-IP-LNB%5D%2005-2016%20-1.pdf

Just saw this...

Looks very good

Common features:
• 8 x Full Band H/V DVB-S/S2 tuners
• Unlimited number of transponders from position
• Supports 8 x SAT>IP clients (one each tuner)
• SAT>IP via Gigabit Ethernet RJ45 connector output
• Up to 900 Mbps transport stream bandwidth
• Separate H and V Full Band SAT-IF outputs
• Powered via 802.3@rev 2012 PoE type 1, class 2
• No DiSEqC, 22kHz or FSK required or supported
• Transparently supports FTA as well as CAS services
• Die-cast housing
• Power consumption <7.5W

When this get out will be very appreciate....

Anyone hear if/when triax are going to release this sat-ip lnb?

gary tan wrote:

Anyone hear if/when triax are going to release this sat-ip lnb?

A response from Triax posted on the German VDR forum (http://www.vdr-portal.de/board18-vdr-hardware/board84-allgemein/p1280905-triax-sat-ip-lnb-server/):

Das LNB wurde für Kooperationen mit Partnern oder Broadcastern vorgesehen,
ist allerdings leider bis auf weiteres nicht erhältlich .
Gegebenenfalls wird es zu einem späteren Zeitpunkt in angepasster Variante auch für den Endverbraucher verfügbar sein.

So, don't count on it! There are more and more people who see the advantage of such an IP-LNB, the technology does work, quality products are being produced, yet comapnies don't deliver. Strange.

Here are more systems (at a hefty price of 400€ and up) which may be similar to the above discussed systems, though specs are hard to come by:
http://www.hoendl.at/sat-empfangstechnik/sat-spiegel/FLAT-H40-IP.html
http://www.selfsat.com/02_satip/home.html

Anyone knows more about it?

Thanks for the update! Will give up waiting for it so.

The megasat sat ip server 3 actually gives you 8 tuners going by the specifications so that is another option.

If I am not mistaken then this https://www.megasat.tv/produkte/megasat-satip-server-3/ thing has only 4 tuners, and limits connections to it to 8!
I believe -somebody please correct if not true - if one user is tvheadend, then more users can be connected via tvh. And they can watch more than 8 programs. But whatever they watch is limited to 4 frequencies!

There are more systems with 4 tuners, though.